Yuta Tomikawa
Hello to all our Voice-Only Toyota Times listeners, I’m Yuta Tomikawa.Today, for the first time ever on the podcast, we are recording in two different countries.

Here we go.

Akio, are you there in America?

Akio Toyoda
Yes, hello.

Tomikawa
Hello.

There you are.

Toyoda
I’m in America.

Tomikawa
Oh! I wasn’t expecting English.

Since you’re in the States, I’m sure you’ve gone to In-N-Out for a burger?

Toyoda
I have.

Tomikawa
Of course (laughs).

Toyoda
I didn’t visit In-N-Out, but we had lots of In-N-Out burgers brought to us.

Tomikawa
I knew it. They are your favorite.

Toyoda
Yes.

Tomikawa
What kind do you go for? A regular hamburger?

Toyoda
I just have the regular, nothing special. Others were having doubles and all sorts.

Tomikawa
Have you liked them since college?

Since your time at Babson?

Toyoda
No, no, no.

Tomikawa
Really?

Toyoda
This is what I eat when I visit America.

Tomikawa
Every time?

Toyoda
They sell different T-shirts in each part of the country.

Tomikawa
Oh really? Even by store?

Toyoda
In-N-Out California, for example, or In-N-Out Las Vegas, or whichever place you go.

At the beginning I had fun collecting them.

Tomikawa
Oh, I didn’t know that.

Toyoda
That’s why I went to In-N-Out in lots of locations.

Tomikawa
Right…

Toyoda
When I bragged about it in Texas, where Toyota’s U.S. headquarters are located, the governor basically said, That won’t do here—in Texas, you eat a Texas Burger.

Tomikawa
Oh wow.

Toyoda
So, I ate one.

Tomikawa
What is a Texas Burger?

Toyoda
There are all kinds of chains—In-N-Out, McDonald’s, Texas Burger…

Tomikawa
I see.

And of course you have photos wearing the T-shirts, don’t you?

Toyoda
I do. Not recently though. For a while I wore them often, but not these days.

Tomikawa
Voice-Only Toyota Times is a podcast so most people won’t be able to see it, but we’ll insert some images on YouTube.

For those of you listening on YouTube, we’ll track down those photos for you.

Photographic evidence of Akio wearing an In-N-Out T-shirt.

Toyoda
But you can’t tell unless you see the back.

Tomikawa
Oh.

The place name is written on the back?

Toyoda
The location and graphics, they’re all on the back.

Tomikawa
Really? I want to see!

Toyoda
Is this what we’re talking about today?

Tomikawa
(Laughs) I’m just winging it as always.

But of course, you have a reason for being in America.

Toyoda
Yes, I do.

Tomikawa
Every year, Toyota holds a National Dealer Meeting in the U.S. as a way to say thank you to local dealerships. I’ve covered it in the past, but this year I am here in Japan for a 20th anniversary event for Lexus dealers.

Toyoda
The 20th anniversary.

Tomikawa
So, I couldn’t go to America.

Toyoda
Yes. And instead, this time I decided to attend the U.S. dealer meeting at the last minute.

Tomikawa
You went, Akio. At the last minute.

I had heard that you weren’t going to the U.S. dealer meeting.

Toyoda
That’s right. As president, I used to go every year. But after becoming chairman I came to think, “Hmm, maybe not every year.” I would go once and then stop. I didn’t want to impose myself.

Tomikawa
I know what you mean.

Toyoda
That’s what I was doing, but this year it happened to coincide with Lexus’s 20th anniversary, and above all there are the tariff issues. With the U.S. being the epicenter, I thought about the message we should send to Toyota’s dealers, and who should deliver it. Not to toot my own horn, but even if the message is the same, coming from me it has the air of a long-term commitment.

Tomikawa
Oh, I see, I see. In other words, given the U.S.-Japan tariff issue, and with President Trump constantly making statements, the dealers must have been feeling uneasy, wondering what’s going to happen.

Toyoda
That’s what I thought.

Tomikawa
I see. You sensed this and felt that you personally had to be there, so you flew to America for the meeting at the last minute.

Toyoda
Yes, and on top of that, there have been some changes to our management team in the U.S.

Tomikawa
Oh?

Toyoda
I’m not sure whether it was a routine matter, but there was a changeover at the top.

Tomikawa
Oh really?

Toyoda
Yes. Well, when I say changeover, it’s someone who’s been with Toyota for over 30 years, most recently at Toyota Financial.

Tomikawa
I see.

Toyoda
He has taken the top role, and I think the dealers are probably wondering, “What is going on here?”

At times like that, I think you really need something that serves as an unwavering core, and since I had done this for over a decade, I felt it would be better to step in.

I suspected the dealers might be feeling a little anxious about these two developments (the tariff issue and management changes).

Thanks to their efforts in pursuing our multi-pathway strategy, I believe Toyota is in a rather different position from other OEM dealers.

Tomikawa
Yes.

Toyoda
For now. Even so, although Toyota looks solid for the moment, I thought it would be best to dispel any concerns dealers might have over these tariff issues or management changes.

Tomikawa
I understand.

Toyoda
That’s why I decided to go at the last minute.

Tomikawa
No matter how close the relationship is between Toyota and its dealers, and the trust that exists, I’m sure they would have felt uneasy.

So then when you showed up, completely unexpected, what was the atmosphere like in that moment?

Toyoda
My role at past dealer meetings had been to close out the event, coming out after everyone had done their presentations to wrap things up. That was the typical format.

Tomikawa
Right, right.

Toyoda
Normally it’s good for me to close with the message “let’s work together as one team,” but that would get a bit muddled if I’m talking about tariffs.

Tomikawa
Of course.

Toyoda
So, actually, this time I did the opening…

Tomikawa
The opening?!

Toyoda
As Toyota’s chairman, I started by focusing solely on the tariff issue.

Tomikawa
Really! Wow.

Toyoda
Then to close the event I did my usual thing, I guess, speaking as Akio Toyoda and Morizo.

We have around 5,000 dealerships, most of which are family businesses. That means they are independently owned and operated. I therefore speak to them personally as Akio Toyoda, as Morizo, and this time I closed by talking about my recent outing at the Nürburgring 24-hour race and the upcoming official launch of Woven City.

Tomikawa
I see, I see.

That is an important message as well.

Toyoda
Yes.

Tomikawa
Alright, let’s dig a bit deeper—one by one, in the order you just mentioned.

Firstly, I can picture the usual scene that takes place when you make an appearance.

Even if everyone knows you’re coming, when Akio enters there’s an explosion of excitement. It’s like a big star has arrived—an idol, even. My image of the event in America is people cheering excitedly as though their favorite idol has appeared.

On top of that, this time they weren’t even expecting you to come, were they?

Toyoda
They weren’t expecting me. And they definitely wouldn’t have expected me to come out first. 

Tomikawa
Right, the timing too.

Toyoda
These two things made for an incredible start, when I took the stage.

Tomikawa
I can imagine!

Toyoda
Even yesterday, there was a sort of welcome reception, and I deliberately made a video saying, “I’m sorry I can’t make it this time.”

Tomikawa
Oh wow! Played it up.

Toyoda
But then, because I’ve been staying at the hotel for two days before the dealer meeting, last night (on the eve of the event), I bumped into someone at the hotel. 

Tomikawa
Oh, I see I see.

Toyoda
In that moment I said to them, “Hey, what are you doing here?” I made the pre-emptive strike. 

Tomikawa
Very good.

Toyoda
“Why are you here?” “The dealer meeting.” “Oh really? Nobody told me. I’m here on vacation.” That was the conversation, and then we went our separate ways. 

Tomikawa
You’re really thorough.

Toyoda
That’s right, I am. I even said, “It’s the dealer meeting. I wonder who’ll be there this time,” which left the person a bit suspicious. Apparently, they didn’t tell anyone they’d run into me.

Tomikawa
Which made for an amazing scene when you showed up at the event.

Toyoda
At the dealer meeting the next day, I was the first to come out. I started off like, “I was here last year, so it’s alright.”

Tomikawa
You said that?

Toyoda
Yes, I said something like that. Like, “I was here last year, I may as well come every year.” Because of that, I think the sense of welcome really came across.

Tomikawa
Right, right.

That alone would instantly clear away any lingering worries or anxieties.

Toyoda
No, really. In any case, for the first half, I spoke as Chairman of Toyota. Instead of going for my usual talk peppered with jokes, this time I spoke about our approach to tariffs. It wasn’t about me spelling out the pros and cons of tariffs, but rather emphasizing that Toyota is thoroughly prepared. We’re not panicking. That starts with me being here and showing that I myself am not panicking, and reminding them that we’ve overcome all kinds of crises together. I stressed that in times like these, if we stand together, we can find a solution.

Tomikawa
I see, I see.

Toyoda
But the biggest problem here, you know, is the trade deficit. Taking last year’s data, for example, our dealers sold 2.4 million vehicles in North America. 

Of these, 1.8 million were produced locally.

Tomikawa
That’s true.

Toyoda
The remaining 570,000 vehicles were imported from Japan. Or rather, for us in Japan they were exports. 

Tomikawa
Yes.

Toyoda
And this creates a trade imbalance. How many American cars are imported into Japan? Toyota alone exports 570,000 to the U.S. From America’s perspective, that’s a trade deficit, which creates difficulties. While speaking about this, I also touched on how Japan and the U.S. differ in many ways on safety, including the certification issues. In Japan, the focus is on protecting people in accidents with cars—because that’s the reality of our roads.

Tomikawa
Right, right.

Toyoda
In the U.S., it’s more about car-to-car collisions. So, the safety rules end up being a bit different.

Tomikawa
Right. Statistically, that makes the U.S. rules stricter, doesn’t it? After all, cars are a lot harder than people in a collision.

Toyoda
Yes. President Trump often speaks of Japan having non-tariff barriers, and I think this is probably what he is referring to.

Tomikawa
Right, right.

Toyoda
For instance, turn signals: in Japan they have to be orange, but in America they can be red. Things like that make you think, why not standardize them?

Tomikawa
Yes, yes, yes.

Toyoda
I emphasized that in any market, no matter where the cars are made, we should be competing on a level playing field. In fact, Toyota is now working with the Japanese government to create an environment that makes it easier for American cars to be imported.

In sharing these developments, I outlined some of the actions Toyota can take to help resolve the trade deficit.

Tomikawa
I see. Firstly, what struck me just now is that you don’t usually mention numbers, do you?

Toyoda
I don’t. I even made a comment in my speech, about how I’m not good with numbers. I might be okay if we’re talking about horsepower. But that didn’t get much of a laugh.

Tomikawa
Really?! Everyone was listening intently.

Toyoda
The reason I bring this up is that Toyota was founded in 1937.

Tomikawa
Toyota Motor, that is.

Toyoda
Yes. That’s when we made our group-wide pivot from the loom industry to cars. At the time, America's General Motors was the world's leading automaker.

Tomikawa
Right.

Toyoda
As I always say, Toyota Motor started as a venture in 1937. These days Toyota is talked about as number one, but at that point GM was already the world leader. It was GM that expanded the global auto industry to the point a venture like Toyota could grow into the world's top carmaker.

Tomikawa
Ah, I see where you’re coming from.

Toyoda
What I mean is, I have nothing but utter respect for America’s auto industry, as well as its pioneering carmakers, for having cultivated and grown the automotive market to where it is today.

If Toyota is considered world number one based on volume, then I believe Toyota's role is to speak and act for the betterment of the entire global automotive market.

Tomikawa
I see.

Toyoda
Despite everything that is happening around the tariff issue, I made no mention of how tariffs might impact our company’s earnings, and instead discussed how we might create a world of fair and free trade.

In the past, GM and other top carmakers laid the groundwork that allowed a venture company starting out in Asia, in Japan, to grow this far. As I told our dealers, this is what we should be doing right now.

Tomikawa
I see. Things just clicked into place for me. When talking about automotive tariffs, in the past you’ve spoken about wanting to help American manufacturers sell their cars in Japan. And the comments you made earlier were not about ensuring that Toyota comes out on top—you’ve genuinely thought about the American automakers. Hearing your explanation just now made me realize, “Ah, that’s what he was talking about.”

Toyoda
To put it boldly, we seek happiness for all those working in the car industry around the world, for everyone involved. And I believe the auto industry will remain a central part of every country, in aspects such as jobs and stable investment.

If we happen to be considered the auto industry leader right now, I think we should act and speak in a way that makes this clear for all to see.

The event this time was attended by some 5,000 American dealer representatives, who don’t just run Toyota dealerships. This was a group with dealerships for GM, Ford, all kinds of brands, so I felt that such sentiments would surely resonate with many of them.

Tomikawa
That’s true. It’s because they come from the heart, rather than being calculated, that’s why they resonate.

I wonder what Kiichiro would think right now, if he were watching us from above. His vision was to establish an automotive industry in Japan. And now his grandson, Akio, is in America, speaking for the global auto industry. No doubt he would be deeply moved. It really struck a chord with me, just imagining that.

Toyoda
In any case, that’s how I see it. So that’s what I spoke about in the first part.

But you know, it can’t just be all the wonkish stuff, so to wrap up my first half, I told the dealers that, as Chairman of Toyota, I had three very serious messages for them.

Tomikawa
What were those three?

Toyoda
“Don’t worry.” The second one was, “Be happy.” And third: “It’s gonna be alright.”

Tomikawa
There we go.

Toyoda
Well, that got a laugh. That offered the biggest reassurance, and I think at that point it resonated with people.

Tomikawa
Yes, no doubt. It wasn’t the laughter you get from your usual Akio charm, but laughter that came from a sense of relief. Ah, I get it.

Toyoda
To me, those three felt better than saying something like “You can rest assured because Toyota is thoroughly prepared,” so I went with that for the ending. 

Tomikawa
Very good. This is enough to really hit home, but we should hear about the second part as well, shouldn’t we (laughs).

Sorry, I think you mentioned speaking about motorsports and Woven City?

Toyoda
Yes, that’s right.

Tomikawa
When it comes to motorsports, of course it’s all about making ever-better cars.

At Nürburgring—that’s right! What struck me most at Nürburgring was seeing you speaking with Karin from Daimler Truck and then, right there in front of me, you agreed to do business together. Talk about making things happen through motorsports. And you do the same thing in Japan, with car-lovers coming together at the racetrack and discussing business to create a future for other car-lovers. The speed with which things moved was fascinating.

Toyoda
A lot of things happen. I also touched on that at the event as well.

Tomikawa
Including Nürburgring as well.

Toyoda
Nürburgring as well. This time especially, since I am also Toyota’s master driver, and my son Daisuke often comes up when talking about candidates to succeed me as master driver.

At Nürburgring, we raced the 24-hours with a team of four: the pro drivers Oshima and Ishiura, and two gentleman drivers, myself and my son, Daisuke.

The four of us had never raced in the same car before, much less at Nürburgring.

Tomikawa
Oh right, that’s true, isn’t it.

Toyoda
As master driver, I am already 69 years old, right?

Tomikawa
You sure don’t look it.

Toyoda
But one of the concerns is about what will happen next.

So, while I didn’t explicitly say that the next generation of master driver is also taken care of, I wanted to share a message that gave this impression. But as you know, Toyota is a public company, isn’t it? And people often talk about the founding family. Within that context, putting my son’s name out there in a public setting like the dealer meeting would raise questions.

Tomikawa
Yes, that’s true.

Toyoda
So, the person writing the speech came to ask me if it was okay to mention my son’s name.

Tomikawa
Right, right.

Toyoda
My response was, “This isn’t about him being my son, but rather individual skill.”

Tomikawa
Ahh.

Toyoda
It’s a matter of driving skills, and regardless of age, I respect anyone who has that ability. Whether it is my son or a regular employee.

Tomikawa
Of course.

Toyoda
If that person possesses the skills, I think it’s perfectly fine to put them forward openly, which is why I included his name.

Tomikawa
I see, I see. As one of the four, Daisuke did a lot of the driving, didn’t he?

Toyoda
He drove the most. At the event, I commented, “No doubt he would say that his driving skills are far superior to his father Morizo.” Then I added, “But the truth is…”

Tomikawa
The truth is…

Toyoda
“The truth is… he’s right.”

Tomikawa
(Laughs) That’s great.

Toyoda
I said that he’s already beaten me on skill. But that’s not what it takes to be a master driver. If it’s just about being highly skilled, ask a professional racer. We’ve got some remarkable drivers.

Tomikawa
Indeed.

Toyoda
But as an OEM brand manufacturer, you need the unique feel of a Toyota, the feel of a Lexus. And because carmaking is a team effort, I think the role of a master driver is also to motivate and inspire everyone to make cars.

Tomikawa
Yes, yes, yes.

Toyoda
In this respect, of all the automobile companies around the world, not very many have a master driver role.

For that reason, I took this opportunity to once again speak about the master driver role, and to introduce Hiromu Naruse, with whom that role originated.

So in that regard, I think people were able to appreciate that this is not about “Oh, Morizo’s racing again,” but the role of a master driver, and laying the groundwork for the future.

Tomikawa
I see. When you talk about laying the groundwork, I have sensed that since CES. I’ve watched Daisuke work as a central figure, stepping forward as part of the younger generation responsible for the future, and leading the way with Woven City. Seeing that in America too, it felt like this was the phase we are entering this year.

Toyoda
But on that occasion as well, his name was in the script from the outset.

In that case, though, I had them take it out. That’s because he’s doing it as part of his role. I’m happy to name individuals for their specific skills, but in that case, it’s not as though he is working alone, so I don’t think it is right to mention him by name.

As Toyota transforms into a mobility company, we are building our own test course for new forms of mobility. The products that are invented, used, and created there—whether it is 10 or 20 years from now—let’s work together to bring them into people’s lives. That is our message.

Tomikawa
I see. One thing I’ve always found is that you have very strong convictions. You never waver, do you.

Toyoda
Hehe. Thank you for the feedback.

Tomikawa
(Laughs) I did sound a bit high-handed, didn’t I. I’m sorry.

Toyoda
You sure did.

Tomikawa
But that’s what I felt, honestly. Oh boy, let’s get back on track.

Where were we… Woven City is finally getting its official launch. Just around the corner.

Toyoda
It’s very soon, very soon. People start moving in on September 25.

Tomikawa
I can’t believe it’s finally happening.

Toyoda
Yes, it is.

The thing is, during the preparation phase, we had the pandemic. And then, one of the key features of Woven City is the underground passages, but once construction began they found an unbelievably massive bedrock layer.

Tomikawa
Oh, I remember.

Toyoda
Yet despite all that they got it done in five years. I think that’s incredible.

Tomikawa
These moments really showcase the power of young people, don’t they.

Toyoda
Our young people led the way. I believe the future should be shaped by younger generations, which is why the team was built around our young members.

And they managed to convince the construction contractors and all sorts of people. I think their passion played a big part.

Tomikawa
Indeed, it did.

Toyoda
And the result of those efforts, despite dealing with the pandemic, the bedrock, and everything else, they managed to get it done in five years as originally planned. When people are living there, that’s when we can really get started… exploring the future of mobility.

Tomikawa
Exactly. You use the word “exploring,” because this has been about taking on the challenge without knowing the answers, and that’s still the case moving forward.

Toyoda
We don’t have the answers. So, let’s try to create something. Above all, I think this is about trying things out and seeing how they go.

Tomikawa
But in going forward into the unknown, it offers hints, I guess you could say—the way that everyone joined forces and poured their passion into this brought us to the starting point in five years, and in that sense it also seems to guide the way forward, showing that we need to keep working with that same passion toward a single goal.

Toyoda
I think that’s right. Also, the future is no longer for me to talk about. In my position, if we’re talking about 20 years from now, I can’t even be sure I’ll be alive.

Tomikawa
You’ll be 89. I hope you live that long.

Toyoda
If you’re in your 30s or 40s, you can imagine your life 20 years from now. That’s why when it comes to the future, I think our younger members should lead the way.

Still, there will always be people who say, “What do these kids know?”, so while it might sound arrogant to say we’ll protect them, I believe that is the role of the grown-ups right now.

Tomikawa
Ahh, I want grown-ups like that in my life! I guess I do have one right here (laughs). I’m sure everyone felt the same way, listening to you.

And the number of Inventors coming to Woven keeps growing, now up to 19 companies, I believe. Together they will build the future of mobility. I’m super excited to see what emerges.

Toyoda
Toyota Times is going to set up something there, right?

Tomikawa
Thank you for bringing that up. Indeed, we will be setting up a studio. Together with the Inventors, we want to share regular updates on how Woven City is going, and what kinds of inventions are being made.

Toyoda
Right. The thing is, the capacity is set, so there is a limit to how many people can actually live there. But the future is not going to be created just by the city’s residents, and I would like others who are interested to be able to get involved. To make that happen, I want to keep spreading the message to more and more people through Toyota Times.

Tomikawa
Yes, and we want to share that regularly.

Toyoda
Exactly. Not just announcing when some new thing is complete, but also videos showing the process and what’s actually going on. What ordinary residents see and experience every day. I think it would be great to get more people on board in this way. Please, make it happen.

Tomikawa
Thank you very much. I’d like to try living there myself as well. For a set period, though; it would be too hard to stay long-term. I’m sure that would give me some different insights.

Toyoda
So how do you get to live there? I’ve been getting these kinds of questions, including from the American dealers on this trip, and I expect there will be all sorts of questions and requests as we move forward.

Since we have this owned media, it would be great to use this platform for sharing content like that.

Tomikawa
Oh yes, a Q&A segment would be great. That’s why you’re the editor-in-chief. Great idea. It could be a regular thing, like, here are the questions we received this month, and here is what we found out. We could even invite people who can provide the answers.

Toyoda
Yes, yes, yes.

Tomikawa
Ah, we’ve already hit 30 minutes. Honestly, that half hour flies by when I’m doing this podcast with you.

For our listeners, the official launch of Woven City Phase 1, Toyota’s mobility test course, is scheduled for September 25. Nineteen companies are taking part as Inventors, teaming up to chart the future of mobility. We look forward to seeing what kind of mobility future these companies will build, create, and weave, together with Toyota. Very exciting.

Tomikawa
Akio, what time is it where you are in America? It’s a 16-hour time difference.

Toyoda
It’s 5:30 p.m.

Tomikawa
Oh, evening, just before dinner time. And this is after giving your speech at the dealer meeting, the same day?

Toyoda
Yes.

Tomikawa
Oh I’m sorry, you must be exhausted. And right before dinner.

Toyoda
Yes.

Tomikawa
Thank you. I’m sorry—but you can probably tell that I’m not really sorry (laughs).

Toyoda
It shows that words alone don’t convey feeling.

Tomikawa
I have to admit that the joy of getting to record this podcast wins out. My apologies.

Toyoda
It’s alright. But this is also a good way, isn’t it?

Tomikawa
It is. We can do episodes even while being in different places.

Toyoda
That’s right. And being a podcast, it doesn’t matter what I’m wearing.

Tomikawa
Exactly. You can go casual. Are you wearing something nice?

Toyoda
Are you saying my casual clothes aren’t nice?

Tomikawa
No, no, no, no! I didn’t mean it like that—I meant nice as in casual but smart, with a jacket…

Toyoda
Aha. Thanks for the feedback.

Tomikawa
(Laughs) The second time today. I’m sorry. I apologize for ending with me rambling like this. I’ve completely lost it…

Forgive me, Akio. Thank you for joining me despite being so busy, and before dinner.

Toyoda
Thank you very much.

Tomikawa
See you next time.